Since publishing the post What Is A Whiskey Sommelier a debate has arisen, accusations have been made, motives questioned, fingers pointed and so on. The Whiskey Marketing School published a response that verified the vast majority of my research and points derived from it; it also opened another wave of questions. Though before we get back into the Whiskey Sommelier Certification issues I need to make an apology.
I’m not a journalist by trade, my day job for the last 14 years has been in marketing and working with data and I approached the article from a data mindset. I spent weeks researching everything I could and putting the pieces together like a data project. I didn’t call the School and I missed an opportunity to make an even more rock-solid article. Since publishing, I’ve made some minor changes to the original article to reflect the official stance of the school, which I quote throughout the article below, and recommend you read in its entirety. All “WA/WMS” quotes are “in quotes and underlined“.
Post publishing I sent two offers for an on-the-record call to dig further and clarify some of the finer details. The offers were neither accepted nor declined. This is neither condemning nor baiting, just a statement of fact. I completely understand they might feel it wouldn’t be in their best interests and that’s understandable because In my view their reply further cemented my original article.
My opinion, my view, hasn’t changed in the slightest: A 2-day “certification” (regardless of the cost) does not equal the years of work and dedication it takes to be a real Sommelier. The WMS Whiskey Sommelier Certification is little more than a series of communications and marketing seminars using whiskey as the talking point. It’s a business “certification” that leverages a service industry term for expertise to gussy it up as more than it is.
And now I’d like to clear a few things up.
Attacking The Tribe
The original Whiskey Sommelier Certification piece was, and still is, about the certification and that’s it. There is a reason I didn’t talk about any of the other classes at the Wizard Academy, The Whiskey Tribe, The Whiskey Vault, their Patreon, or anything else; it wasn’t about any of that. Good on them for everything else, they’ve accomplished a lot.
I also want to state for the last time that I’ve never been a part of The Tribe. I’ve been told there was a followup video to the “Idiot” video clarifying that it wasn’t me who asked to get back into the Tribe. But for the record, again, I had never even heard of The Tribe until I started my research into the Whiskey Sommelier Certification.
I have nothing against the Tribe, I imagine the majority of them are great people. It’s a good-sized group and on the whole, I received only a moderate amount of direct insults and messages along the lines of “Fuckface: I say this in the nicest way possible go fuck yourself…” (opening to an actual email). This was not, and still isn’t, an attack on any of what I mentioned above, hence never mentioning any of it in relation to the certification.
Why I Wrote The Whiskey Sommelier Certification Piece
A variety of accusations and assumptions have been thrown around about why I wrote the original piece. So, here’s why I wrote it.
The first time I saw one of those giant medallions was at Whisky Live 2017. After making a joke, I asked the person wearing it how they got it and it effectively came out to a weekend in Texas. I know several real Sommeliers at various levels and know what it takes to earn that title and I found it curious. I asked around a bit more, heard some stories, but figured it was one of those things that would fizzle out and paid no mind.
Over the following year, I heard “Somm stories” from reps who come to town for events. Everything from “Somms” treating service industry people poorly because they were the experts to disrupting rep tastings by incorrectly answering basic questions from the crowd which the rep would then have to correct.
Being synonymous with “beverage expertise” the fundamentals should be second nature to a real Sommelier. After hearing these stories, coupled with my own experiences, I finally started digging in and I was shocked at what I found.
Seeing a 2-day program setting such a low bar of entry for an expertise title isn’t what I was expecting. Coupled with guarantees like “you’ll be a level one whisky sommelier after your first two day class” and the WA’s own Vice Chancellor positioning it as a “no experience necessary” type of thing left me bewildered.
If you watch their videos you’d know all about the Whiskey Sommelier Certification
Another common criticism to the original is “well if you watch their videos you would know what they mean”. But that’s assuming you’re in the Tribe.
I came at it as an outsider and looked far deeper than your average/reasonable, bar owner, event manager, PR person, etc. might when checking into someone’s “certification”. After seeing extensive marketing, communications and story-telling experience for those listed as involved I figured what they put out was 100% what it was; that they had crafted their marketing to tell their story.
After reading wild claims like “In 5 classes across 2 years, we train people to become the most admired whisky experts in the world” on their Facebook page, Wizard Academy Site, Whiskey Marketing School site and the co-founder’s blog it rang as though they meant that and not the 6-8 years they’re now quoting.
Like I said, I approached this like a data project and conclusions were not drawn from a single point of reference or a single failed search (ie a single lack of data). When I saw reoccurring themes across social messaging, WMS pitches on becoming a “highly-paid whisky expert”, WA posts/marketing, the co-founder’s blog (Bourbon Blog) and the Vice-Chancellor’s blog (Whiskey Smiths), it’s reasonable to think it accurately represents what these marketing/”public speaking and communications experts” are doing.
Lesson learned.
The Key Points Of My Original Whiskey Sommelier Certification Post
Stated above, I have made some minor changes to the original to reflect their “Truth” post. However, my stance on the subject as a whole and my view on my core points haven’t changed one bit.
- The Whiskey Marketing School / Whiskey Sommelier Certification is unaccredited and not endorsed by any other credible industry organization.
- The people creating the courses, and teaching the vast majority, are not industry veterans.
- The Whiskey Sommelier Certification is a marketing and communications (Ambassador/Evangelist) seminar series
- built by marketing people and leverages the Sommelier term to capitalize on its current cultural significance.
A 2-day Whiskey Sommelier Certification is nothing at all like earning a black belt.
Since their rebuttal was issued, I have noticed that there has been some backtracking/changing of positioning. I thought this might happen so I used screenshots in my original. I also downloaded full HTML copies of all pages referenced before publishing. You can access those files here and get the full zipped folder here. Not saying this as a “gotcha” thing, but as a reference.
Whiskey Sommelier Certification is not accredited or endorsed by any other credible industry organization.
In their rebuttal, they say “The US Government and Wizard Academy are the accrediting bodies behind Whisky Marketing School.” Those are some nice words, but a 501(c)(3) is not an accreditation; it is a tax designation.
Per the IRS “Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.”
Nothing about the status guaranteeing the quality and veracity of information taught at a school. As for the WA part; accrediting yourself is like grading your own homework… it’s also not what accrediting means.
Per Wikipedia “Organizations that issue credentials or certify third parties against official standards are themselves formally accredited by accreditation bodies (such as UKAS or IAS); hence they are sometimes known as “accredited certification bodies”.[1] The accreditation process ensures that their certification practices are acceptable, typically meaning that they are competent to test and certify third parties, behave ethically and employ suitable quality assurance.”
And when it comes to Schools “Accreditation is a process of validation in which colleges, universities and other institutions of higher learning are evaluated. The standards for accreditation are set by a peer review board whose members include faculty from various accredited colleges and universities.”
Would I call The Whiskey Marketing School an “institution of higher learning”? No, and I don’t think anyone would.
However, the key to me is “peer review”, which is pretty hard to get when you completely circumvent the industry you’re certifying for. Per WMS: “We didn’t look to the existing industry for support or credibility because we wanted to build something they weren’t currently doing.” That should be a massive red flag for anyone looking into this.
If the goal of the program truly is “that the majority (if not all) of our students can make a living in the whiskey industry if that is their desire” and is “for whiskey industry people and those who wish to be in the industry” then it should probably have both support and credibility in both the whiskey industry and the service industry.
But, this is America and they’re free to do what they want. Just like I’m free to criticize something that I feel is, at best, a lazy and disingenuous approach to an expertise title “certification” and potentially harmful for the industry(/industries) it’s intended for.
Lack of Industry involvement with the Whiskey Sommelier Certification program
I originally asserted that they were not industry vets, but communications and marketing (aka business people) and a musician. The former being clarified as experience in “…music and business background” and having “spent a cumulative 5+ years as a bartender” and “a founding member and current board member of the Texas Whiskey Association and am an owner of a Texas distillery called the Crowded Barrel Whiskey Co.”
I have some questions regarding the “cumulative 5+ years as a bartender” at the bottom in the open question section, but I’ll point out some facts about the TXWA and the CBWC here.
The Texas Whiskey Association was launched on September 20, 2018 (~4 months as of writing this) and the “Pilot batch” of whiskey from Crowded Barrel Whiskey Co came off the still on August 1st, 2018 (~6 months ago as of writing this); a handful of months does not an industry vet make. Not besmirching the TXWA and I’m not besmirching CBW, I’d also like to have my own distillery, but neither of these equal a veteran aka “a person who has had long experience in a particular field”.
In the original, I stated I didn’t know Kate’s involvement and it’s great that she has “12 years of management and consulting experience in curriculum process and test development as well as credentialing in over 300 industry professions such as Healthcare, IT, Engineering, and Finance.” But none of those, nor the wine industry experience, nor owning “whiskey experience” companies, nor investing in whiskey companies are equivalent to working in, and being a veteran of, the whiskey and service industries.
I imagine in making the professional certifications mentioned above that industry experts and veterans were used to assess, develop and give credibility to the certifications. Especially anything signifying a higher degree of expertise, like a CCNA or something similar. So why should this be any different if it’s meant to signify expertise?
The rest of the people listed sound like great people to grab a drink with, but they’re exactly like you or me, passionate enthusiasts, but that still isn’t a veteran who’s spent significant time doing the job, day-in-and-day-out, that’s being certified for. This assertion is further corroborated by the co-founder Tom Fischer, who was suspiciously absent from the “Truth” post: “The other instructors are public speaking and communications experts Kate Van Name, Chris Maddox, and Steve Rae.”
The one veteran exception would be the Prichard’s who “help teach the courses focused entirely on bourbon” which begets the question… how long is that focused, veteran-taught, course? Not that it’s a substitution for years of experience and work, but it would be good to know how long their session is.
The Level 2 curriculum is a “focus on Bourbon and American Whiskey, Public Speaking and Storytelling, Palate competency training and food pairing science, Training in the art of competitive whisky judging”. Inside American Whiskey you have rye, single malt, corn whiskey, “moonshine”, various blends and more that exist outside of a bourbon focused segment.
There’s also a written test, graduation ceremony and meals to fit into the 2-day course on top of everything listed. It would be good to know how deeply involved the Prichards are, length of session, etc., and put it up for people to see and set expectations. Because, based on the totality of the two days, it doesn’t seem like the bourbon focused, veteran-taught, course could be more than a couple of hours.
Whiskey Sommelier Certification is a marketing and communications/business seminar leveraging the Sommelier term
First off, they pretty much say that on their own site “The program we teach is the art of storytelling, effective marketing, and communication around the medium of whiskey.”… That is not what a Sommelier is and doesn’t match what they’re trying to say now.
This should all be obvious by now, but for me, the most telling piece of their rebuttal was this quote: “In the service industry, we are expensive. In the business world we are not”…
In that same rebuttal, they say a whiskey sommelier is used to mean “beverage expert” and “knowledgeable drink steward”. Both of which are service industry focuses. They also say their goal is “that the majority (if not all) of our students can make a living in the whiskey industry”… and that their “class is for whiskey industry people and those who wish to be in the industry”. All of this after admitting to circumventing the industry…
Add the fact that Daniel “started the wine sommelier program and stopped when I realized I didn’t love wine as much as everyone else in the program did” with Kate’s “consulting for vineyards and wineries in MD for several years” and you have marketing people who should be more than aware of the weight the term Sommelier carries, the level of expertise it carries culturally, and what it takes to achieve it.
Furthermore, I see “the worst marketing strategy is to invent a term that you have to explain” as a total cop-out. Something like Whiskey Ambassador is both a better fit for what’s being delivered and perfectly understood without any need for explanation. I still hold that the basic outline sounds like a good structure for Brand Ambassadors.
And in that spirit of positivity, I will agree with Daniel that “the English language is a fluid, living thing”. There is a word in English that once meant “strange” and another that meant a “bundle of items”, both of which now drip with venom when slung about; they have long departed from their original meaning. I’m aware of the humble origins of the term Sommelier, but this isn’t ye’ olden days.
The term, today, has specific cultural connotations and expectations around expertise and knowledge which stem from years of experience and study. Which is admitted by saying that it is a “term denoting expertise”… so. How is a seminar billed as “no experience needed” and “you’ll be a level one whisky sommelier after your first two day class” at all deserving of an expertise title?
Again, I see nothing that changes my original position.
A 2-day Whiskey Sommelier Certification is nothing at all like earning a black belt
Since they didn’t even touch it in their response I would hope this overblown hyperbole is obvious… but it’s true. 2-days doesn’t equal expertise any more than your first two days of any legit martial arts class prepares you to go toe-to-toe with a black belt. The metaphor there should be obvious.
It should also be obvious that none of the legit certifications out there lead with hyperbole. They lead with info and credentials. With all of the other legit certification programs, their info is right up front, as both a selling point and to fully set student expectations.
The expertise and credentials of the people teaching it; the accrediting or endorsing bodies of the programs; full descriptions of the coursework; failure expectations (if they existed); detailed course descriptions; expectations to-be-met between levels; advancing level application requirements and so-on. The fact that none of this is, but they’re claiming they have it, should be a red flag to those looking into the program.
On Failure and Experience
There are two points in the official “Truth” post I found interesting because neither of which came up at all in my research and both are things I spent a big chunk of time searching for mentions of. Google, Bing, a variety of searches on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter turned up nothing. The internet is a massive, ever-changing, creature so it’s possible I missed a mention, but I went far beyond a reasonable human expectation and still turned up nothing.
Potential failure and the repercussions of it should be front and center in the course descriptions like it is on other legit certifications. I can see how that would pose a potential conflict with the “you’ll be a level one whisky sommelier after your first two day class” position on the front page, but it’s an important thing for potential students to understand.
And, while we’re on the subject, I would love to know what the actual pass/fail rate is. I’d also, if they exist, like to talk to someone who has paid $4-$6K + 1-2 flights to Texas and failed. Would love to get their thoughts and feelings on the subject.
Beyond the statement that “If anyone fails our written tests, they are allowed to return and retake it the next time we hold that course” they insist that “after level one, we have industry and experience requirements that have to be met before you can register and attend plus a minimum of six months between courses.” Again, I couldn’t find anything or anyone anywhere talking about either failure or experience requirements. But I did find something else.
Doing a search for all of the listed level 2 Somms and their hometowns I found they hold a wide variety of occupations: insurance sales, business owners (non-industry), realtors, marketers and so on. Many of those I found also have families, per their social profiles. So how exactly are they getting those “industry and experience requirements” while juggling full-time careers and a family? What’s being said vs what I’m seeing appears to be quite different.
This statement of mandatory industry experience also doesn’t jive with their newly stated goal of “students can make a living in the whiskey industry if that is their desire”. Why state a requirement for something that isn’t a realized end-goal? That desire is exactly why people dedicate years of their lives to get a real Sommelier certification.
It also doesn’t mesh with 1 of the 3 groups this is supposedly designed for and marketed to. Per their website this is targeted to bartenders and bar owners, aka the service industry, and “Enthusiasts”. I’m curious why “industry and experience requirements” would be needed for your average enthusiast who wants to “deepen your love and knowledge of whisky while teaching you how to communicate that knowledge to those around you in a way that won’t make people avoid you at family gatherings.”
Finally, these requirements appear to disagree with the original positioning (screenshots above) by the Vice-Chancellor of the WA that “each of the five levels is a beginning, not a destination”. If they exist, these requirements should be posted; they are on all other legit/accredited/industry-endorsed certifications.
Based on A) what I saw searching the Level 2 Somms and B) knowing someone who has gone from level 1 to level 2 (whose actual experience isn’t extensive) I have a hard time believing this new information. I can’t help but feel there isn’t much, if anything, to those “industry and experience requirements”. I can’t really see a husband and father with a full-time job, like insurance or real-estate, picking up bar shifts so he can get his Level 2… can you?
What Do You Have Against The People Involved In The Whiskey Sommelier Certification?
Nothing, I’ve never met them. As I’ve stated from the beginning the problem is with the certification. Taking advantage of a title with a specific cultural meaning and expectations and then delivering something that’s not even close to equivalent.
In their rebuttal they say “There are only two reasons to get a certification of any kind. Community and knowledge. If you already have both, you may not need it.” But that’s not what certification is.
Certification: “to recognize as having met special qualifications (as of a governmental agency or professional board) within a field.”
And that’s exactly what a real Sommelier certification is; that definition is followed to a D with their requirements as lined out and administered by Master Sommeliers with decades of experience in their industry. It’s not a 2-day seminar that requires no previous experience… that’s the opposite of the above. As for the community… Isn’t that what The Tribe is for? I feel like they already achieved that quite well.
The official stance is that the term ““Sommelier” is relatively understood to mean beverage expert, and that’s what we’re creating in the field of whiskey”… but I fail to see how that is achieved after just 2-days with no prior experience required… and everything else mentioned above.
Questions I Still Have
- What exactly are the requirements between levels – I’d like to know if they match what I’ve researched and personally witnessed.
- What exactly are the pass/fail rates of each level of the school?
- If mentioning 5+ years of “cumulative bartending” as a mark towards veteran status more info is needed.
- How long ago and over what span was this cumulation? (a lot has changed in the last 5 years alone)
- What kind of bars? (dive vs high-end cocktail require different skill sets)
- I did extensive broad and local searches for the instructors involved and mentions of bartending, bar work, cocktail menu creation and so on and found nothing. I assumed they could have done some college bartending, hence including the statement “any renown or major experience”.
Whiskey Sommelier Certification – In Conclusion
Absolutely nothing has changed for me and their reply only backed up my research and strengthened my view on the subject: Whiskey Sommelier is a term made up by some marketing folks in Texas who run a thing called the Wizard Academy (aka The Whisk(e)y Marketing School). It isn’t endorsed by or accredited by any other reputable industry association. It has zero association with the actual Court of Master Sommeliers and to become a Whiskey Sommelier zero prior knowledge of whisk(e)y is needed. It’s a $4,000 “certification” you obtain in a weekend, not one you earn after years of work and study like a real Sommelier.
It’s also my opinion that the term “Whiskey Sommelier” has been opportunistically damaged, possibly for a long time. I plan on spending many, many, many more years of my life researching, studying, traveling and nerding out in the quest for whiskey knowledge. It’s even possible I’ll make a career change and work in the whiskey industry. It’s a strange world, why not?
The future is always uncertain, but one thing I know for sure is that I am not now, nor ever will be, a “Whiskey Somm”. I think it’s time for the industry to come together, create its own term and build rigorous programs that would befit an equivalent title. Without it, opportunistic enterprises like this will continue to pop up.
Hypocrisy and Salt
It just seems like a bunch of hypocrisy, and some salt.
It’s funny all this talk of people certified in whisk(e)y answering “basic questions” incorrectly and yet failed to address that so-called experts in whisk(e)y and also in wine also do have often done the same. Let’s not forget the reps themselves have a bias and might also be incorrect at times or trying to defend unregulated terms (ie small batch, etc)
Penn & Teller and Adam Conover both have covered with extensive research how the so called somms of wine are just as bad if not worse than the brush strokes you keep trying to paint the “BS whiskey cert” while you try to defend the other BS titles and certs. Either experts being unable to tell the difference between box wine, “cheap” wine, and expensive wine
Let’s not forget that American wine only won awards when those tasting the wine didn’t know where the wine was from.
I’ve done blind wine tasting and people (so called industry experts with years of experience and the average person on the streets)have been shocked to find out the wine they tasted at the store they loved so much was in fact a bottle from Spain for 5 usd and not the 20-80 dollar bottle of wine they thought it was (with the unsurprisingly the experts being the ones guessing higher still)
You cry in the comments that it’s not gatekeeping and that’s the favorite claim of “the tribe” but I am no member of the tribe and it does seem like gatekeeping.
I have not taken the course but like any corse I’m sure those that don’t keep brushing up and assume they know everything of course they will prey to their own hubris, again just like all the so called experts you defend. Akin like throwing stones in glass houses.
It does not get more inclusive than “the best whisky is whatever you like, and the best way to drink it is however you please.” I’ve help customer with picking out bottle of wine for their sangria that have told me they wanted the best regardless of cost, while the other experts scoffed at the idea.
At the end of the day regardless of wine or spirits any expert should focus on inclusivity and not becoming snobs. I do agree that experts should make sure they know the terminology, but the terminology also needs to have actual meaning. But gain at the end of the day a lot of the valid points here also are applicable to experts you try to defend. So either bring down the entire facade or don’t try to gatekeep the masquerade. admit you’re own bias and uses of second hand story and nothing concrete nor scientific evidence.nor trials . Clearly the backlash cut deep for such a salty reaction that is noticeable in the articles and replies.
This really feels like an attempt at gatekeeping. What they do doesn’t hurt you and visa versa.
Gatekeeping, a favorite word of “The Tribe”. It’s a bullshit opportunist program that they bill as being something that it very much isn’t and they utilized a term that reflects ultimate expertise as a short cut to actual expertise. No, no gatekeeping. Do what you want, spend your money on what you want, I just think people should have all the information out there when looking at a program, especially one that costs as much as they charge, yet holds no actual weight or credible accreditation in the industry they’re making it for, an industry they purposely excluded while making their BS program.
You’re right it doesn’t hurt ME, because I did my research and saw what BS it is, but it can, and has, hurt other people. Businesses and individuals who thought it was more than it is. I’ve watched first hand at people mistaking what this BS is for something more. Mistaking this weekend bootcamp for something that has the same level of rigor and subject mastery as a wine Sommelier which has an entrenched definition in today’s culture.
When I’ve burst their bubble about what it actually is the reactions are always the same and along the lines of “Oh wow, I thought it was the same as a Wine Sommelier, that it was a similar program and testing” and all too often “Oh, so it doesn’t have anything to do with real Sommeliers?” All too often when I talk to people they think it has to do with the real Court of Master Sommeliers. Because they’re responding to the name and title without doing any research because it’s a weighty title that is entrenched in our culture these days.
Net-net, no gatekeeping. They’re free to do it and I’m free to call bullshit on it… because it is.
I just saw this article and have to say I appreciate the diligence with which you wrote this article. I agree about the certification course. It seems to be little more resume-builder/conversation piece/general knowledge course, but for FAR too much money.
Just putting my 2C in about the Vault guys: People in these comments seem to be taking stances on the extremes about the motivations of Rex, Daniel, and Crowded Barrel, when I believe the reality lies in the middle. Yes, they are trying to make money, as a business should. Yes, one reason they started the tribe must have been to gauge support for the channel and create a pool of potential monetary supporters for the Patreon (pretty smart business move if you ask me). But I believe they also have good intentions within the whiskey world and are genuinely enthusiastic about it all; looking to create new interesting whiskeys, sharing knowledge, and increasing communication.
CHEERS! John
Truly appreciate your response. Thank you for sharing it John. Cheers!
I’m not going to write a huge comment since so much has already been said. I would just like to point out to Josh that if you have to defend yourself more and more the longer you go with this thing…. Since it’s an opinion driven hit piece you can’t be wrong per se, but you have found yourself on quite the island. There is nothing wrong with people making whiskey popular or trying to teach people about it man. It really comes across as hate for the people having fun and making money. I’d rather be a part of the Tribe and run into other magnificent bastards at my local bar and share the glory of whiskey then act like some grown man living in his moms basement who clings to whiskey and his Army days to prove his manhood on everybody. I feel if your clique wasn’t antisocial you would just enjoy the camaraderie, share a dram, and let everyone else just do their thing man. You should call your tribe the whiskey police.
No one is policing anyone’s enjoyment of whiskey. Stop conflating the two. I’m calling a BS whiskey cert a BS whiskey cert… because it’s a BS whiskey cert. End of story.
ha ha…Jeff…it’s you guys who are playing Lord of the Flies out on Whisk(e)y Tribe Island. And, you’ve all been voted off by the rest of rational world.
My man, by now, it’s patently obvious to any objective observer who has cared to wallow into this mire that Rex and Daniel are a couple of hucksters out to make a cool buck. And, they could care less about any potential ethical dilemmas that Josh has brought up…except for the fact that it’s making them look bad. But, they don’t need to worry. They’ve got you guys locked down.
ST
You keep saying in almost every response and post that you can call yourself an expert afetr a 2 day course. Is 3 days all that different? because to be certified as a sommelier by the court of master sommeliers you just need to take a 2 day introductory course and a 1 day examination. They recommend you wait a year after the intro course to do the exam, but that’s not required, and neither is it required that you have any industry experience, though again, it is recommended. The whiskey steward certification that you recommended can take even shorter than that to get.
You’re confusing course with test.
Court of Master Somms on their intro cert: “I have no prior knowledge/experience with wine…Is this program for me? It is expected that students walk in the door with strong knowledge of all major wine producing countries and regions of the world and basic wine service. A minimum of three years in the wine/service industry is recommended, but not required.”
That is VASTLY different expectations than “After your first two day class you’ll be a level 1” and not needing ANY prior knowledge.
YES there is a class and a test at the Court, but you can’t show up with just some general knowledge about wine and even have a hope to pass the intro let alone the Somm 1. You need to have years of research, practice and work to have a hope to pass. Whiskey Somm is a seminar with a “cert” at the end. Court is prep for years, show up for some courses that will fine tune learnings you should already have and then take a difficult test and hope you pass. The expectations are vastly different. I truly don’t know how you’re not seeing this.
Seriously, just read the whole course, they tell you that the 2 day “refresher” won’t prep you to pass even the intro. Either you’re not actually reading anything other than “2 days” or you’re being willfully obstinate.
Court Prep: How do I prepare for the Introductory Course & Examination?
A student’s success in the Introductory Course & Examination will depend on a combination of career experience and level of preparation. A minimum of three years in the beverage hospitality industry is strongly recommended. It is expected that students walk in the door with strong knowledge of all major wine producing countries and regions of the world and basic wine service. In preparation, it’s recommended that students acquire a general guide to wine to reference and reinforce the topics included in the Introductory workbook. Download the Introductory Course Recommended Study Resources at http://www.mastersommeliers.org/resources. Upon enrollment, students receive access to download the Introductory workbook.
Intro Somm and “Whiskey Somm” couldn’t be more different.
It’s telling that all the pro-tribe comments here showcase the critical thinking skills and logical maturity of a high school freshman. Great articles Josh, enjoyed reading them, and it’s a topic that needed to be discussed.
Glad you’ve enjoyed them Jon, cheers!
I believe you put waaayyyy too much stock in the word Sommelier. Just let it go. There isn’t an equivalent in the whiskey business, so if they want to appropriate it, then what’s the big deal? I’m a Sommelier, it’s not that big of a deal and it wasn’t hard to get. You are definitely not familiar with the Sommelier cert process. And I am failing to see what the difference in what you do and what they do. Both of ya’ll are profiting off of your “expertise,” whatever that means. You almost never see people within the wine industry throwing barbs at each other and I think it’s a horrible thing to see it within the whiskey community (since it is even smaller). In the end it’s all about the enjoyment of whiskey and the promotion of that enjoyment. Stick to that.
Sorry, but I’m having a hard time believing you’re a certified Somm through the court of Master Somms. I know several at level 1+ and 1 whose next stop is Master Somm and she’s not sure about taking that step because of what’s involved. None of them have said it was easy. I had another friend who was going through the training and studying and ended up giving up because it was too tough and she realized her heart just wasn’t in it while going through it and left the wine industry as a whole and entered travel hospitality instead.
Enjoyment and promotion of enjoyment is one thing, we all do that all the time. Opportunistically going after a term with the goal to create “the most admired whisky experts in the world” and serving that up via a $4K 2-day class is a totally different thing.
People are upset about your article for a multitude of reasons. The original article seemed like such a hit piece. You comment in that article about them being lazy, but you write a pretty scathing article without reaching out to them. You say in this article that you’re not a journalist. But you sure are fooling a lot of people into thinking that you are. I would argue that your blog is analogous to what you argue their Sommelier course is. Every argument that you’ve made about their course could be applied to your blog. You didn’t go through the rigorous training of becoming a journalist and just started writing blogs based on a whole bunch of googling. No boots on the ground or even taking the effort of dialing a phone number. What are your journalism credentials?
Furthermore, I would argue that Daniel and Rex have done as much for the whiskey business as anyone in the last century. They have gotten over 100,000 followers on their channel and have gotten people to really appreciate the nuances of whiskey and have created an inclusive culture. I am a tribe member and I can tell you there are whiskeys that I never would’ve purchased or even tried at a bar without seeing them talk about it. Yes there are courses that are more intense and certainly a longer duration. I am not arguing with you there. What I think you are failing to see is the fact that these guys are getting a significant number of people to appreciate whiskey. The other courses that you have mentioned with all of their credentials have not even come close to what Daniel and Rex have done in regards to getting people to appreciate the spirit.
Also, in the end, I have never gotten the feeling that they have been trying to fool people and stealing their money, which in the end is what you are insinuating. This is a group of people who love whiskey and love teaching others about it.
…ok.
Among all the bullshit, knee-jerk responses, I feel that Kor hits most near the mark. It is easy to see the fault in the other, but painful to see the mirror in ourselves. I speak as one who has faced this painful truth within myself more than once over the last six decades.
Your crusade for purity echoes the prompting of my ISTJ soul, but life experience has brought me to the point of granting grace to those who see the world differently from my perspective. To extend the benefit of the doubt that I hope others will extend to me. Even to those who are bombastic and pretentious and self-important and all the things that piss me off.
When I have taken the time to sit down with those who annoy and piss me off the most, over a dram or two or five of whiskey and a nice cigar, and ask them what brought them to this place, I find the humanity behind the bullshit story I built in my mind to dismiss them. As recently as this night I have shared a glass and a smoke with someone I couldn’t stand to be in the same room with a year ago by taking the time to find the human behind the narrative I had built in my head.
If you can find it in your heart to forgive the ramblings of an old man, consider seeking the path of looking for the good instead of ranting and railing against the bur-under-the-saddle of the moment. Life is short, and I find more value in celebrating the good, rare as it may be, than railing against the occasional thing that pisses me off. Especially in the days that we find ourselves in.
God speed you on you endeavors.
Hi Fred,
Thank you for the well thought out response. I don’t have anything against the people who run it, I’d happily sit down to a glass of whisky with them. The issue is with the certification being positioned as something it very much is not. This level of harsh criticism is exactly the kind I’d levy on any of my friends who attempted the same thing. If my best friend of 20+ years hatched this exact same idea and execution I’d tell him that it’s opportunistic and lazy and he should either not do it or call it something more appropriate like a Whiskey Ambassador program.
I’d also tell them to drop the whole martial arts comparison because it’s utterly ridiculous and actually works against their interests. Every piece of criticism I’ve leveled against the program I’d have no problems doing the exact same with my greatest friends. Though being my friends they’d have received this kind of criticism long before they tried to roll it out.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but it’s never been personal. I may find their videos annoying (I’ve watched a few since I started the research), but that doesn’t mean this had anything to do with that. Never has and never will be.
Cheers Fred!
Turns out I may be able to take 6 weeks off this summer: so a internship might work out! Thanks again!!
That’s awesome, hope it works out!
I think that you did a good job in your original article, but this article is even better. I am a fan of the WMS and the Tribe videos, and I credit them with helping me to get into whiskey, but after reading your original article, I admit I felt a little betrayed (if that’s the right word). A bit like finding out Santa Claus isn’t real (spoilers).
Using the word “sommelier” undoubtedly implies an air of supreme expertise. Calling yourself “whiskey sommelier” implies you are the equivalent of a “wine sommelier”, but for whiskey, and there is no debating that aspect. I still respect what the WMS is doing, and I appreciate their YouTube reviews of many whiskies, but I admit that now their credibility has really taken a hit in my eyes. I always assumed Daniel had gone through the rigorous training that a wine sommelier would go through to earn his title and medal, but they are merely, as you have cleverly put it, “grading their own homework”. I don’t necessarily think it’s as damaging to the industry as you suggest, because I think these things will naturally work themselves out, but I do think they have been disingenuous by lauding themselves as industry-recognized whiskey experts, when in reality they are knowledgeable whiskey enthusiasts and marketing pros.
Hi Boliver,
Thank you and thanks for the thoughtful response.
I don’t think it’s massively damaging to the industry yet, it’s in its nascent stages but could end up causing a larger problem if it was let to go unchecked. There is potential harm to business owners, event planners, the students themselves etc. from them hiring supposed experts who have no actual experience in the industry. I’ve already seen a “Somm” get put in a high position but they no actual experience and it’s been a bad situation for both the “Somm” with no bar experience (but is expected to be performing at a high level) and the bar owner. If repeated over and over in city after city that’s when it could be harmful on a larger scale. Right now it’s micro geo-based, but still sucks for all involved.
What I don’t understand is you admit to not being an investigative journalist but you persist in moving forward like one. What gives?
Read that whole paragraph and not just those words. I admitted to making the mistake of not calling them in the first place because investigative journalism isn’t my day job. It’s something, I’ve learned I should have done and would have made for a rock solid article the first round and no need for a follow-up. I’m admitting that I made that one mistake and stating why I made it. I’ve obviously learned from that. Don’t equate one with the other.
If you read the whole thing I also say “But, this is America and they’re free to do what they want. Just like I’m free to criticize something that I feel is, at best, a lazy and disingenuous approach to an expertise title “certification” and potentially harmful for the industry(/industries) it’s intended for. “
Secret tribesman, I see that now and think from what I’ve seen in terms of moderation on the page that it was likely his characterization of his fellow group members that caught the admins attention. There were those of us either on one of the threads about this or the 1st article that did voice agreement with or at least some of the same concerns Josh voiced and suffered no blowback from the admins.
Well first of all I find it somewhat unbelievable that anyone was kicked off the Tribe’s FB group for posting the article. Both this one and the first one were posted multiple times by people I know continue to be a part of the group. In addition, there were those of us who are members over there who expressed varying levels of agreement with the articles or our own concerns with the specific use of that term and received absolutely no blowback from the admins for those opinions.. I for one agree with Josh in that I wish they had chosen another term. Secondly, any time you declare yourself an authority and start issuing certifications there is bound to be some push back. The people in charge of the school aren’t naive. I’m sure they anticipated that and were prepared to weather it. They chose to create something they didn’t feel existed and chose to do it in their own way. Certainly their prerogative. They’ve thus far been quite successful with the channel, the school, and apparently the somme program since classes routinely sell out. Whether or not the somme program ultimately succeeds as anything more than a vanity certification for enthusiasts will depend on if the certifications gain industry acceptance and prestige. I think it is likely too early in the game to make that call. Ultimately, I don’t really care. There is just too much good whisky to enjoy to worry that much about it.
BDP, thank you for this thoughtful and insightful reply. Cheers!
Well, bdp, I can understand why you would think it’s so unbelievable that someone would get kicked out the group for posting this article. Yes, many have re-posted it. But, Bush was the only one to post the article while agreeing with it. And, thusly, ’twas he bouncéd.
Believe it…or not!
Scroll up a ways to Bush’s comment “THANKS FOR THE FOLLOW UP” where he and a tribe troll discuss the matter.
Reviews of some nice whiskeys are a lot more fun to read.
They’re a lot more fun to write :)
There are very few blogs posting reviews as frequently as this one. I’m glad you took on this important topic and I enjoyed reading both posts immensely, even if I didn’t agree with everything. Cheers!
Cheers Tim, and thank you. Hope you have a great weekend!
To put something into perspective: I had the opportunity to visit Pritchard’s distillery a couple of years ago and met Mr. Pritchard. He’s a quite a nice guy and I enjoyed sampling most of the spirits he makes. I also learn the backstory of how he came to start his whiskey business. Mr. Pritchard began spirit making as a hobby, at his home in Memphis, while he was employed by the US Postal Service. He used a jerry-rigged pressure cooker for a homemade still and made his own rum out of a supermarket bought grade A molasses. After the retired from his day job, he continued experimenting with spirits and started to make whiskey using recipes passed down from his grandfather or great grandfather, who had been a distillery owner before he shut it down in 1915, when Tennessee passed its own prohibition laws prior to the passage of the 19th Amendment. While Mr. Pritchard is a whiskey industry professional, distilling from the only licensed distillery in Lincoln County (and, ironically, does not use charcoal chill filtration), he has not been doing it as long or as much as the Beams or the Willets.
The only truthful thing you wrote was: “I am not a journalist”.
If you were you would realize that just because you quote something doesn’t mean a) it’s a fact or the truth and b) you’ve done your research.
For example, Josh Peter’s was quoted as saying:
“I also want to state for the last time that I … feel lazy and disingenuous”.
Your whole article is filled with half-truths and out-right lies. Not to mention complete lack of experience and research with your own topic of discussion. You seem to barely know anything about the actual Whiskey Sommelier course. And most apparent of all is just how bitter you are about the whole thing.
Grow up.
Well, that’s definitely an opinion. Have a great day, cheers!
I’m quoting Sally here:
“….you’ve done your research”
“your… article is filled with… experience and research… about the actual Whiskey Sommelier course”
Well done Josh. I’ve enjoyed your take(s) on this and wholeheartedly agree with you. You don’t have to be a level 3 investigative journalist to call this BS out.
Trent
Thanks Trent, appreciate it. Cheers!
Knowing that The Tribe is quite enthusiastic about The Tribe, I figured some of the fallout from your original post would be venomous. I am also quite dubious of the goals of the WA. Since I started following TWV on YouTube, I always try to remember this was started my a group of marketing people. They are there to make money. Part if this is to put into practice what you teach. The Tribe, WA, and NPD are all extensions of that idea. It is a successful example of successful marketing. Of course the leadership is there *for you.*
That said, I find their YouTube content entertaining, and a but nerdy. But, those medallions are freakin ridiculous.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, cheers!
For that amount of money I’d rather rent a cheap motel room in Kentucky or Tenn and see if a distillery would let me do some kind of volunteer work, sweep the floors, just get to observe quietly. I suspect I’d learn some real and valuable things. On a more classroom level (since I can only take 2 weeks to visit the area this summer) I might take the general knowledge class Ferm Solutions (now also Wilderness trail ) offers. I’d love to take their professional level course of study but I’m sure I don’t have the chemistry competence it would require.
100%, and some of the distilleries used to have “intern” programs where you could go down and work there, at your own expense, and do a variety of jobs. Springbank still does that and I fully plan on doing it! Cheers Jon!
Thanks Josh! I’m also going to looking into those internships Thanks again!
Great to see this piece on TWV. I’m a big fan of the YouTube channel and never looked into what it takes to be a Somm. In fairness Daniel is Level Three Somm, which makes me think that the course is not a plain sail through tjing obecause he has such a wealth of knowledge but seems to be on L3 for god knows how long. I understand your frustration of the this course as you say it is not validated which some whisky body. I suppose it’s a case of those, like yourselves with the knowledge, know just what medallion means, just some weekend course.
Really great write up, well critiqued. I’m just happy the YouTube channel is there like many others, like yourself. Where I know there’s a huge community of people who share a passion for the Water of Life.
Hey Mike,
Thanks for the reply. The L3 Somm thing, from what was expressed in their truth post, is because the L4 course hasn’t been created yet. And thank you for the kind words, I have nothing against the YT channel and I’m glad you enjoy it and find value in it. Their shenanigans aren’t my cup of whiskey, but I also know my writing style isn’t a fit for everyone as well. It’s life.
Thanks and cheers!
Now that we’re all against each other and issues have been brought up, how do we fix the problem to get everyone on the same page. We can all go back and forth and argue about this or we can work together and make the industry better starting now.
Hi Scott,
That’s a great question and one that I’ve been discussing with some folks. I have a lot of thoughts on this, far more than I want to put in a comment, but in a nutshell, it should be approached with two focuses that get merged. What is needed from a service industry perspective and what is needed from a whiskey industry perspective and then work with veterans on both ends to create a professional certification.
One suggestion a friend of mine had was if the EWA and someone like Moonshine U started working together to devise robust structure and knowledge requirements. Also, for my mind, I think the term Sommelier shouldn’t be used and the industry needs to create/adopt its own unique term (like cicerone for beer).
OG MB’s!
I’m inspired to write this post after reading Jon Packer’s plea for us all to examine and lament where “the tribe” has come to.
We were there from the beginning! And, let’s be real — Rex and Daniel were never cool. But, for a minute, it looked like they might actually be interested in spearheading a pretty cool little initiative. A whiskey community where the members weren’t dicks to each other! — which apparently, is a rarity in the FB world, in general, and bourbon groups in particular.
Being cool with each other was all I needed. I was in! I never bought the anti-snobbery bullshit, though. I mean who the fuck in the entire cyber whiskey world is a bigger douchebag than Daniel? He based his online persona around it. But, when he realized it wasn’t selling, he brings in a “mooch” to put the snob in his place. Excellent marketing! But, when you consider that the mooch is actually the boss’s son, it kinda loses something.
But, whatever. I can deal with some douchey-ness if their intentions were genuine and the community was good. Well, the folks in the tribe are very nice. But it quickly became apparent that intentions were dubious, to say the least.
I remember when the crowd-sourced whiskey idea came up. All sorts of folks wanted to help. And when Rex and Daniel crafted their videos bemoaning how expensive it was to start a distillery, folks who had the requisite experience wanted to help them make it a true group effort, where people could invest in the project. But, that was very quickly blown off. Their few and patently lame excuses were easily shot down by tribes folk who knew. They weren’t trying to shoot them down, just find solutions. But, RnD weren’t interested in those solutions. They were interested in their plan. So now, instead of there being an innovative whiskey project where enthusiasts chip in to truly crowd-source a product or even a distillery, we’ve got these clowns who have grown their little market and are selling them MGP swill at a premium in cheap bottles with fiddly bits that fall off and corks that pop open in people’s suitcases. smh
You know, it’s popular lore within the tribe that the whole thing sprouted up quite organically. Well, sadly, that’s not the case. And, lest you think I’m some butt-hurt tribal cast-off casting baseless aspersions, here’s some proof that the creation of the “whisk(e)y tribe” was a very calculated marketing scheme. Better check these links out soon, though. Before these gents pull the plug on them.
For the nominal price of $2500, you too could have shared in the secrets of how to “cultivate an enormous tribe”…a cultivated and conditioned online mob that would gladly do all your internet bidding…and pay YOU for the privilege…sound familiar???
https://www.wizardacademy.org/product/build-an-audience-with-video-july-11-12/
There’s also a video posted in the video section of the Wizard Academy’s FB page, where “the boys” and Brian Brushwood gleefully (and sometimes inexplicably shirtlessly) discuss the inner workings of how to pump and dump a tribe…
https://www.facebook.com/WizardAcademy/videos/1997857040240040/
Know thyself!
ST
As a former tribe member and still member of the Vault Crew, I have to agree…The Vault Crew group was the one that grew organically, and it is far better than the tribe ever was. I left the tribe after it became clear that it was a toxic cesspit of fanbois that would hunt you down and skin you alive if you even so much as whispered critisism about the guys.
Stopped watching the channels after they became pure bullshit. The early videos were interesting, but it went downhill fast.
The fact that tribals even go so far as to personally attack the author here tells me everything I need to know. This is bullshit and never was anything else…it just was fun for a while.
Amen, Rev. I can’t even remember how long it’s been since I’ve suffered through one of their videos. Even the FB group is pretty lame now. In the beginning there were a bunch of members whose insights I respected and looked forward to reading. But, they jumped ship a long time ago. The collective IQ has cratered. All I seem to do there now is answer total noob questions — which I’m pleased to do. But, the way that tribesfolk have been behaving in response to this article has left a bad taste in my mouth. It might be time to let it go. I’ll keep an eye out for this crew you speak of!
Regards,
ST
Im in the same boat, completely out at this point especially since I’m kicked from the FB group. Was happy to pop in once in a while and offer some help but no more I guess. There are some other groups out there that are great but im always looking for a good FB group or reddit to lurk in.
I like the Bourbonr FB Group quite a bit. They’re a good group of folks
Yes..I saw the fleece coming from a mile away. I gotta admit a got some sick pleasure in seeing the loose corks a poppin’ on that overpriced MGP. And..It really is a cult.
thomas white
I enjoyed this article tremendously.
I have read your reviews for a few years and always appreciated the thoughtfulness. . When I heard the guys on the bourbon pursuit podcast mention your previous article and praise it I was quite happy. Large medallions and shoddy whisky facts are a blight on this wonderful hobby. Keep up your good work.
P.S. If it wasn’t for your reviews of George Dickel I likely would never have bothered to try a Tennessee whisky, and that would have been a shame, my trip to cascade hollow for a bottle of 17 year old is one of my fondest memories. Thank you.
Thomas I am so jealous of you right now with that 17. I can’t get enough of it. Thank you and cheers Thomas!
Great article, a friend sent me a link to their website and all kinds of red flags came up for me. I’m not an expert but I work in the industry and not only the price but the claims made are just silly. I’m sure it’s a fun course but $4000 is obscene, I’ve taken multiple liquor certifications and none of them were more than $1500. Save yourself $3000 and take a certification with Moonshine University, they are thorough and actually work with people in the liquor industry to make their course content.
Thanks for sharing. Cheers Henry!
You may have never been a member of this group, but I would have to agree with TJ. It really seems like a lot of your frustration with them is the use of the wors “sommelier”. Now do I think more time should needed for the title of “expert”? Sure. And I would also be curious to see pass/fail rates and testing requirements for the higher levels. However, I do not believe there are any certification programs out there like this for Whiskey. It would be hard to justify saying “your program isn’t good enough” when there is nothing to directly compare it to. When the term “sommelier” was first turned into a certification, what were the requirements? I don’t mean now. I mean right at the start. Within the first 5 yrs or so. Were there strict requirements? Are they much more refined and strict now? Like any budding certification, figuring out the requirements, levels, etc take time. Who is to say that 20yrs from now Whiskey Somms are an industry standard or at least more prevalent? Who is to say more schools for whiskey somm certification don’t start and band together to improve and regulate certification standards? My argument is really just playing devil’s advocate on the fact that it is a newer phrase/term and not to dismiss it so quickly.
There are a variety of programs that educate on various levels. I covered just 3 such accredited and established in the original post. But if it calls itself a Sommelier course and has none of the rigor of a real Somm course and also completely eschews the industry it’s trying to certify for… that’s a problem.
I agree with both you and Katie, but mostly Katie. Here’s why…
First of all, certification for sommeliers is not universally regulated – what qualifies someone to be a Somm differs by country, state, sometimes even *city* and that’s only if there is any regulation *at all* in the given region. So just because you’re a “Somm” doesn’t necessarily mean much of anything even as the term is used today within the wine industry. Some sommelier associations in the US require members to take expensive programs like those offered by WA and then require members to pay dues in order to remain certified.
Secondly, the idea of a strict wine sommelier certification is still relatively new and was in fact a pretty controversial idea early on before some organizations sprung up and started to try to standardize what the term meant (and there *still is* a lot of controversy over it because there remains no universal regulation – case in point: https://punchdrink.com/articles/the-myth-of-sommelier-certification-debunked/ – there are countless articles like this, that take issue with sommelier programs much the way you take issue with the WA program, just a google search away).
While I do agree with you that Rex and Daniel seem to be using the term sommelier in order to capitalize on people’s preconceptions of what that term means and the prestige it holds, I disagree that the wine industry is doing it all that different. The only real difference is that the wine industry has used the term for the past 40-50 years (full of controversy and scandals of their own) and has had the time to smooth out some of these sorts of issues so that it doesn’t get the same criticism it once did (though it still does get criticism).
To Katie’s point – anything like this takes time to suss out and is typically defined over decades. The same thing was true with wine.
Sorry, but The Court of Master Sommeliers does not differ at country, state, city, etc. levels. It’s a transcontinental certification with strict requirements at each level and doesn’t vary with anything locally and they are the recognized leaders and standard-bearers in the field. What you’re saying isn’t actually related at all, and if you think it does please add links to these city, country and state requirements. I’ve never seen them for said org or even listed in any cities codefied guidelines within the service industry.
If by relatively new you mean been-around-for-over-forty-plus-years, then yes it’s new. But I don’t consider forty+ years as “new”. I’ve read the link and I also spent several hundred words talking about successful and recognized wine somms who aren’t certified, like Rajat Parr, and linked to an article of them talking about certification. The underlying point still is that expertise can’t be obtained in a weekend and no actual expert would disagree with that and in the article, I link to they talk about that.
I will disagree with you about the wine industry doing something different. Any widely recognized org (like the Court) has strict requirements and knowledge levels that revolve around needing years of knowledge and experience to achieve these expertise titles. Experience is where expertise is derived from… literally. Handing out an expertise-level title without experience backing it is disingenuous at best.
Go look up their “level 2” somms. 95+% of them have white collar day jobs. They haven’t spent 5+ years working in bars, traveling to distilleries, working in the industry, etc. They paid for their level 2 and nothing more; a CEO of a chain of hobby stores isn’t going to be picking up shifts at his local bar so he can snag his level 2 to impress his friends. It’s a vanity title and nothing more that they’re gussying up as something legit.
I’m also going to disagree with the statement of “it takes time to suss out” things like this. Daniel said he started the Wine Somm program, Kate Van Name is supposedly deeply involved in the wine industry and the Court of Master Somms has all of their requirements listed and have been the subject of numerous shows and documentaries. There are plenty of blueprints available if it’s supposed to be following a similar course so there is zero excuse for that other than pure capitalization.
Let’s also not forget that IF the intention is to be accepted by the industry then you shouldn’t go around the industry, exclude the industy and veterans of it, but work with it. Daniel calling out that he specifically circumvented the industry should be the biggest red flag of it all. How can a program, supposedly meant to create industry experts, be created completely outside of the industry? That’s pretty basic in my book.
I know the tone of this comment is coming off as aggressive, but it’s not meant to. I see what you’re saying, but it doesn’t match up to what I see is actually happening. I see the “devil’s advocate” side of it, but no matter how I look at it, no matter what argument comes back, all I see is opportunistic grab and nothing more.
Cheers
Sorry, I apparently wasn’t clear in my original reply – I *do* agree with you when you say “It’s a vanity title and nothing more that they’re gussying up as something legit.” That *is* what they’re doing. They’re clearly trying to take a shortcut to legitimacy by riding the coattails of an existing cultural understanding of a particular term. I don’t like that either. Full stop.
What I disagree with is when you (or anyone else) treat the word “sommelier” as if it has some prestigious relevance beyond what it actually has. Yes, I am aware that the CMS certification is the same thing no matter where you get it – my point is that isn’t the *only* Somm certification you can get. There are multiple organizations throughout the world offering their own programs with their own requirements – it is *not universally regulated* so a “certified wine sommelier” doesn’t necessarily have even a fraction of the knowledge of any other certified sommelier unless they’re both certified by the same program. What matters is the program that certified you – not the word “sommelier” – and even then, there are plenty of sommeliers that are fantastic yet remain uncertified.
There are olive oil sommeliers, beer sommeliers, tea somms, sake somms, *water* somms – “sommelier” is already almost a meaningless word. The only reason Daniel and Rex are able to take advantage of that is because people attach a prestige to the word that doesn’t make any sense.
I think we agree on more than we disagree. I take issue with the way they’re selling their program the same as you do – I just don’t think the word “sommelier” is as sacred as some people do, apparently.
We defintely do agree far more than we disagree and, again, I apologize if I came off agressive. I think all of the olive, tea, water, etc. Somms are equally ridiculous. I also agree that as more people abuse it that it will become meangingless and while I think that’s sad, but that’s a different topic. They’re all doing the same thing to capitalize on a word that has risen in prestige in our cultural consciousness over the years due to the numerous books, shows and documentaries that have been created.
Net-net more industries should create their own terms and standards like with beer (Ciscerone) and cider (Pommelier). There’s a really good article WaPo put out that shows not only the further overusage but also shows how some people are doing it right. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/magazine/wp/2019/02/04/feature/mustard-honey-hot-sauce-every-gourmet-food-product-is-getting-its-own-sommeliers/?utm_term=.c87ab4f4f751
My favorite part of the whole article comes from the cheese lady “You can’t study the day before and take this test,” says Jane Bauer, the certification manager for the American Cheese Society. The professionals taking this test need at least 4,000 hours of work experience in the cheese business. “There’s a difference between certification and certificates. A lot of people try to call things certifications, and they’re not.”
It’s a nice summation of the core of the issue.
Cheers SimFri!
Thanks for the follow up
Good follow up. Having simply posted this in “The Tribes” Facebook was enough to get me kicked which speak volumes about their willingness to discuss this objectively with their community. The people in that community are great for the most part and I had nothing against them. I wouldn’t however want to guess how many bottle sales have been influenced on that YouTube channel by a “Somm” because of the weight that title carries which Daniel simply doesn’t show the knowledge, discipline, or pallette to hold.
The Tribe is great.
Rex and Daniel are probably cool guys to drink with.
Anyone who believes they haven’t groomed you to believe they are experts and now use that influence to sell Crowded Barrel Products or Patreon subs should really put ego and fan feelings aside and think hard on that for a minute.
BUSH … the reason you got kicked out is because you posted the original article to the facebook tribe page with the comment “OUCH SICK BURN” then when we read the article YOUR COMMENT (in the article) called us “the tribe” the following….
QUOTE
“However after a while the over all agenda became pretty apparent. Build up a base of loyal fans, condition them into your “tribe”, make them feel like they are a part of something special, and then fleece the **** out of them.
The fact they are making all this cash, starting an NDP, and having a blast living their best life is something I applaud but I do feel like they are achieving this success in an underhanded way. These guys are harmful to new people trying to get in to Whiske(y) by presenting themselves as something they are not and unfortunately the charisma is going to keep the wool over a lot of people eyes”
UNQUOTE
Calling the “tribe” gullible by “fleecing the *** out of them” and “keeping the wool over a lot of peoples eye”, and calling Daniel and Rex “underhanded… Harmful.. Underhanded”
Thats like going to a Trump Rally and spouting democrat ideals,, AND being SHOCKED that they kicked you out of the rally REALLY BUSH? wow you are right you didn’t do anything wrong…*sarcasm*
ALSO TO the WHISKEY JUG you can’t be President of the USA (unless elected) BUT you can be President of a company or a club or whatever,. NOT ALL presidents go thru the same “certification program” The same way the word Sommelier is used…..
So again I never had a bad thing to say about the Tribe itself. Just my issues with the way the people at the top have changed and my poor opinion of the way they are handling an otherwise great community. That is the kind of objectivity I would want in a group, not something I would boot out. Its not the Rex and Daniel facebook group. The people in that group have a right to know there is a lot more going on than tube socks and bottle down ceremonies… I think your issue with my post shows a little narrow mindedness or at worst the blind following of something you may not totally understand.
Yeah, so?
Bush’s commentary was 100% spot-on. Rex and Daniel’s plan from jump was to build a little cottage industry — by gently “fleecing” the tribe and vigorously jerking off the whales. Facts.
And, even if Bush’s comments weren’t facts, they certainly weren’t offensive or a breach of FB TOS or the group’s rules. They were just espousing a sentiment that they didn’t want to hear or to be heard. So, fuck them for kicking him out…and fuck Trump, too. btw.
I think the problem with your position, both original and current, comes down to the notion that there is such a thing as a “real” sommelier and that they aren’t really that. The reality is, as you originally stated, there is no such thing as a real “whiskey sommelier”. Your issue is that they are co-opting a term that does have a specific meaning in another industry. Well sorry, but welcome to the real freaking world. This happens in multiple industries all the time. I work in an industry where I had to complete a 3 year professional masters degree and then a year long internship to get my title. But I could have gone online and purchased the same title for $300. There’s nothing new or significant about someone co-opting a term to market the service they are providing. The question really is, is the service they are providing worthwhile? Based on everything I’ve seen from people who actually went to the Whisky Marketing School (despite your concern that people might not notice that it has “marketing” in the title) the answer to that question is yes. I get that you don’t like that. I think that point is made. Let’s just move on with life.
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I feel its’ a disingenuous approach to something they themselves say they want the industry to take serious and that’s part of the issue I take. Cheers.
TJ- Your argument is that because other people lie and co-opt long standing industry certifications and terms for profit, it’s ok for WA to do it? You don’t think these guys should, I don’t know, be held to any sort of standard or have integrity? Because some people are scumbags, its ok for them to be scumbags, but that doesn’t make them scumbags for…reasons? OK guy.
Opened. Saw it’s another 30 pages like the last post where you got literally ever aspect wrong? Not just on the school, but everything you tried to compare it to like the Court of Master Sommeliers, right down to whiskey Industry and smaller courses that are run by the same industry folks backing their own course?Not only is this not worth reading as you likely still didnt bother to do any legit research, but likely still got every aspect wrong with another lazy hit post. Used to enjoy your reviews, but this has gotten the point where you have discredited yourself. What’s bad with the industry, is people like you. I do have to thank you however for introducing me to the Whiskey Vault, Whiskey Marketing Scool and a real attitude the industry is in desperate need of. Good Day Sir.
Sorry to see you go, but I don’t see how I got anything wrong when I directly quoted them. That’s why I quoted it. Have a great evening. Cheers, Alex!
Nothing in the Whiskey Jug article is incorrect or misleading. He states all of his issues with the fake certification seminars clearly and they are backed up by the “school” itself. OF COURSE he compared it to the Court of Master Sommelier’s. WMS is using the very term. You’re just pissed because he shit on a couple of guys you like on youtube. They have entertaining content to be sure, but bottom line is they have zero credibility, zero industry experience and have stolen a meaningful term (sommelier) and corrupted it by applying it to a meaningless, useless medallion.
Actually, the fact that he doesn’t mention that the basic certification from the Court of Master Sommeliers is ALSO a 2 day course ending in a writen test IS more than a little misleading.
I did put that out there. It’s in the article and I linked directly to it. You also need to show up prepared for that AND you can’t call yourself a Sommelier after that intro test. You can’t show up knowing nothing, pay $600 and walk out after 2-days calling yourself a Somm… I don’t know how you’re not seeing the correlation despite pointing it out several times.
Josh, I can’t thank you enough for writing this piece. I am actually looking for the right information to set myself on the path to learning more regarding accredited training. It’s almost overwhelming when you try to search online as it seems just about anyone will try to market themselves as the experts. I would truly appreciate any information you could provide to help point me in the right direction.
Hi Heather,
Thank you and I’m glad you found it informative. I’d look at some of the standards in the industry like WSET, Edinburough Whisky School and the Stave and Thief Society. Any of them are great sources of info and training.
Thank you! I saw the whiskey sommelier discussion somewhere and I immediately thought, “What the hell is that?”
For me, I’m already a whiskey expert – I know what I like to drink, I know what I’m willing to spend on a bottle, and I know with whom I enjoy having a sip of something good. A $30 bottle of Buffalo Trace and an hour of sitting and chatting with Freddie Johnson, rather than a $4000 weekend, is all the certification I could ever hope to earn.
Cheers KeinPal!
Thank you for this. I’ve had issues with this for a long time and have had repeated run-ins with this. My biggest issue is it’s giving people with no experience an elevated title which is making my job harder on all levels when dealing with them. BS like this has to stop!
Yes, but where may I buy one of those huge cool medals and Chain?
These guys will give you a quote :P https://www.crownawards.com/StoreFront/DOP.Custom_Medals.cat